TD PPG Sound

2 Jahre 11 Monate her #1 von Nami Hyo
TD PPG Sounds wurde erstellt von Nami Hyo
I’m a big Tangerine Dream fan and that was my main motivation in obtaining a Quantum and in particular it’s wave table oscillators. I’ve been trying to emulate the some of TD’s haunting PPG sounds (Kiew Mission, Remote Viewing, Logos Pt 1 etc) because love that subtle vocal quality they possess. The problem I have is I can’t get the patches I make ‘bright’ or ‘buzzy’ enough. They just a bit sine wavey or too muddy. I’ve tried using EQ, drive, gain and start point in wave tables to get that initial,’zing’ but without anything satisfactory. I’ve managed it on my Blofeld and I’ve even copied the wave table parameters from it into my Quantum, but they sound completely different.

Can anyone suggest anything that might help me achieve my goal. What am I missing?

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

2 Jahre 11 Monate her #2 von Qwave
Qwave antwortete auf TD PPG Sounds
First of all: The PPG waves 2, 2.2 and 2.3 used absolute no aliasing filters except for their 4-pole VCF. So more high end content was pushed into the analog audio path. On the PPG wave 2.2 and 2.3, the two oscillators of a single voice were not mixed in a normal manner, but fast multiplexed through a single D/A. So while this is technical something very different and aliasing causing, our ear is fooled to here a mix of both oscillators.

Even the Waldorf microWave and WAVE could not recreate the real PPG sound in the above mentioned details, although their oscillators were partly using the same methods.

It is not the wavetable data itself that is needed to make a synth sound like the PPG waves.

The Blofeld and the Quantum are able to recreate some details of the PPG wave sound. Use these settings on the wavetable oscillators:
- set the TRAVEL knob to zero
- set MODE to HARSH
- use the LIMIT function (you can't recreate the PPG sounds that used the wavetable positions 60-63 anyway. Therefor you can't easily translate the PPG parameters to the Waldorf synths anyway by using them straigt from the display or by multiplying them by 2)
- set STEPPED to 2 STEPS (the Waldorf uses 128 wavetable positions, the PPG 64. The later also did not smooth the transition.
- FX Type to DRIVE and only a little bit of FX amount.
- zero PITCHVARiation
- use only one wavetable a time on the instrument (except for the very special upper wavetable).
- use linear Envelopes on the wavetable position and another exponential one with the same time and sustain values on the filter
- use the DF PPG 4-pole filter
- use only a detuning of 3 or 6 or 9 cent to recreate the PPG detuning values 1, 2 or 3 that were used on most (but not all) sounds.
- Use random hard left and right panning of the voices for more direct PPG wave 2.2 /2.3 sound.
- And only use the wavetables 1-29 of the Waldorf synth. The PWM like wavetable sounded different and can't be recreated perfectly anyway. And the PPG wavetable #31 was a special sample like one (piano/sax) and with a special wavetable mode, so this is missing and not available at all.

Now use your ears. Especially the vocal like PPG sounds use the parameter called "KW" to use keytracking on the wavetable position. The famous PPG wave choir like sound is done using the PPG wavetable #27 (#28 on Waldorf wavetable synths) and uses 100% keytracking. So the whole wavetable was spread across the keybed. And no or only tiny wavetable position. But a bit of PPG wave envelope three on the pitch of one oscillator (parameter "EO" or "ES" on the PPG)

I hope this helps.

And you may read the Waldorf 3.V manual about the upperwavetable.

And if you don't succeed to get the right famous PPG wave sound of EXIT (did some one ever get it right?), if might be due to the fact TD used a PPG wave 2 (not 2.2!) for it. And TD used outboard FX and EQ. This used different electronics and a different filter chip (Curtis and not SSM like on the later PPG waves). And some early PPG sounds of Edgar Froese on the album Stuntman were done using the PPG 360/360A. This on head no filter at all.

If you are really very critical to get the right PPG wave sound, you have to get the Waldorf 3.V software synth or a real PPG wave. As an ex hardcore PPG wave user, I never really succeeded to recreate a PPG wave 2.2 or 2.3 sound at all on a Waldorf hardware synth. But it is so easy using the Waldorf 3.V software. Actually a good computer and this sof synth is way more affordable than the real PPG waves.
Folgende Benutzer bedankten sich: dgothard, yannod917, andiji

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

2 Jahre 10 Monate her #3 von Synthfox
Synthfox antwortete auf TD PPG Sounds
Don`t forget the studio effects. I do not think TD used these sounds pure for their records without any postprocessing or effect gear.

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

2 Jahre 10 Monate her #4 von Nami Hyo
Nami Hyo antwortete auf TD PPG Sounds
Sincere thanks to Qwave and Synthfox. Qwave, that was a fascinating post and it’s great to hear from an original PPG user and from the sounds of it, expert.

I’ve had a bit of a breakthrough in my quest for TD sounds after a few hours of knob twiddling. I selected Osc 1 and plumped for Micro PWM as it sounded quite promising. The trick to making it ‘sparkle’ in the manner I wanted, I put the ‘travel’ up to 40Hz and I got instant sparkle and a voice-like quality! A bit of further playing around with the filter resonance, a bit of drive, chorus, reverb and constant tweaking with the filter ADSR (still can’t get it quite right) and I’m getting really close I can’t decide is ‘smooth’ wave interpolation or 2 steps sounds better but I’m giving my ears and eyes a rest (I have to virtually have my nose up to the screen to see the characters) and I’ll come back to it when They’re both fresh!

I’m excited about my Quantum again!

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

1 Jahr 9 Monate her - 1 Jahr 9 Monate her #5 von dgothard
dgothard antwortete auf TD PPG Sounds
I know this is a bit old, but you were spot on in getting close. I just went thru this on my Iridium and got as close as possible between using you suggestions and looking at Wolframs PPG factory patches. One trick I learned is setting a Triangle Wave one octave lower on the 3rd oscilalor for some subtle low-end sound that seemed to be ,missing. Great write up.Still looking for a way to add some of the buzzes though.
Letzte Änderung: 1 Jahr 9 Monate her von dgothard.

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

1 Jahr 9 Monate her #6 von Nami Hyo
Nami Hyo antwortete auf TD PPG Sound
I had another fortuitous breakthrough recently. I bought a Modal Argon8 Wavetable synth! It’s a bit of cumbersome, non-intuitive machine to use but the wave tables are stripped back compared to the Quantum having far fewer waves in each table. I scrolled through the waves in the ‘complex’ wavetable and hit upon a wave that seemed to have the right characteristics for my TD sound. I did not set it to sweep through the wave table but just sit on the single waveform. After hours of fiddling, refining, listening and trying to assign an LFO to the pitch of the oscillator which required me to contact the Modal help desk (it’s that counterintuitive) I got exactly the sound I was after! Then I powered up the Quantum and went through a similar procedure (using a Formant wave table) and got very close to the Argon8 TD sound!! I’ve even done a crude version TD’s Logos with the patch!

I think the Quantum is ‘too refined’ to produce the rougher sounding PPG sounds. It’s a SpaceX Dragon compared to the Apollo Command module. The Argon8 harks back to the cruder PPG and that’s why I was able to get the sound I wanted.

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.