3 byte Sysex Manufacturers Id

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3 Jahre 2 Monate her #1 von mikeg
Hi,
I am looking at the hex of a midi file for the Lab Cobalt sound set and trying to understand its data. I can see how the first 23 bytes relate to the midi file format but when it starts the SysEx portion of the file it has F0 82 08 3E. From what I understand so far F0 indicates the start of the SysEx data which can be followed by one or three bytes for the maufacture id. I know that Waldorfs Id is 3Eh but what are the 82 08 bytes? Manufacturers with 3 byte Ids look like they should always have 00 as the first of the 3 bytes.
Are those 82 08 bytes some form of checking in the midi file. It looks like they're missed out when transmitting the actual midi data.

cheers,

mike

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3 Jahre 2 Monate her - 3 Jahre 2 Monate her #2 von Qwave
Hi,

this does not look like a well formed, valuable Waldorf SysEx string.
But you wrote "I am looking at the hex of a midi file". So maybe because of this?
Send me the MIDI file, and I can check the pure MIDI SysEx string.


From the MicroWave SysEx documentation of Firmware 2.0:
General info
------------
Sys-Ex dumps and requests will always be in the following format:
F0h IDW DEV IDM --------data--------- CHKSUM F7h
where
F0h       : Status for System Exclusive
IDW       : Waldorf MIDI ID = 3Eh
IDE       : Equipment ID = 00h for MicroWave
DEV       : Device number, 00h to 7Eh, 7Fh = global
IDM       : Message ID
data      : whatever data bytes, 00h to 7Fh
CHKSUM    : Sum of all data bytes truncated to 7 bits. The addition is done
            in 8 bit format, the result is masked to 7 bits (00h to 7Fh).
            IMPORTANT: The MIDI status bytes as well as the ID's are not
                       used for computing the checksum.
                       If there are no data bytes in the message (simple
                       request), the checksum will always be 00h.
F7h       : End of System Exclusive transmission
To verify a message, all ID's, the checksum, the EOX-status and the total
length of the message are used.
Letzte Änderung: 3 Jahre 2 Monate her von Qwave.

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3 Jahre 2 Monate her #3 von mikeg
Hi QWave,

I'm viewing the Colbalt.mid file in the The_Lab.zip file from these Xt sounds
I've not tried another hex editor yet but opening the file in Sublime text editor has the same 2 bytes on every SysEx block. There is also a Byte between each block with a value of 12h. These bytes appears in a few of the soundset midi files I've looked at so far.
I've viewed the midi transmition in SoundDiver when dumping the soundset to the xt and those bytes don't appear in the output so SoundDiver must be handling them in some way. Haven't found anywhere with Google that explains these bytes as some sort of checksum.
I'm trying to parse the files with a Javascript midi parser midi-parser-js

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3 Jahre 2 Monate her - 3 Jahre 2 Monate her #4 von Qwave
Hi,

this is the sysex data part within the .MID file for the first sound ("Cobalt Blue"):
F0 3E 0E 00 10 00 00 
...
 61  F7
All .mid file data is filtered out. This is the pure sound sysex data.

F0 = Start of sysex
3E = Waldorf MIDI ID
0E = Equipment ID for MicroWave 2
00 = Device number ID 0
10 = Message ID for DUMP SOUND data
00 00 = Location ID (to store to ranging from 00 00 to 00 7F for A001 to A128 and 01 00 to 01 7F for B001 to B128
... = data bytes
61 = is the checksum*
F7 = End of sysex


* checksum= sum of all data bytes tranucated to 7 bits. The addition is done in 8 bit format, the result is masked to 7 bits (00 to 7F). A CHECKSUM OF 7F IS ALWAYS ACCEPTED AS VALID.
IMPORTANT: the MIDI status-bytes (F0 and F7) as well as the ID's are not used for computing the checksum.

(see the MicroWave 2 manual for all sysex data information)

There are 256 sound of each 265 sysex bytes each in the file "colbalt.mid".
Letzte Änderung: 3 Jahre 2 Monate her von Qwave. Grund: More details on the checksum

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3 Jahre 2 Monate her #5 von mikeg
Thanks for having a look at the .mid file Qwave. Can I ask what you used to view the midi data? I only have Ableton Live which I haven't managed to load the cobalt.mid file into (I don't think you can edit SysEx in Live). I opened the file in another hex editor called Hex Fiend and the same 2 bytes data is there so maybe it's just the way a Hex editor sees the data.
As mentioned the transfer of the SysEx to the XT when viewed in SoundDiver's midi inspector dosen't show those 82 08 bytes so this might be a side issue that has no real world consiquences. Still, would like to know why they're there in Hex editors.

cheers

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3 Jahre 2 Monate her #6 von Qwave
I am using here on my Mac the freeware SysEx Librarian by Snoize (www.snoize.com/SysExLibrarian/) to manage SysEx data and to strip .MID files for the pure sysex content. For editing I am using HexEdit. The later gets no updates anymore and might not run in the future, as it isn't 64 bit.

Looking at a .MID file for SysEx data is not recommended, as you have to strip of all the timing information inside the file first. Pure SysEx ist without timing or track information. Just the data that is actually transmitted to the units.

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